Chase Carey: "I personally like the grid girls"
- Published on 09 Feb 2018 11:11
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- By: Rob Veenstra
Chase Carey has revealed he was not opposed to the concept of F1 'grid girls'. The sport's new owner Liberty Media has been widely criticised for ending the decades-long tradition.
"I think the reaction was what we expected," F1 chief executive Carey told multiple media outlets. "Actually if you just left it up to me personally, I like the grid girls," he said. "But it's not a decision for me, it's a decision for fans." And he said too many of those fans thought the grid girls concept was "exploitative".
Some, however, think the move has taken a big bite out of F1's glamorous side. Carey insisted: "We're going to maintain glamour. We're going to continue to have pretty girls at races. But I think you have to continue to evolve." (GMM)
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Replies (12)
Login to replytalktohenry
Posts: 362
Well after it was announced I think most fans think it's unnecessary and all the girls doing it never said they felt exploited, it's going too far, different if they walking around with skimpy clothes, but that's not the case, it was a wrong decision, were not tennis, F1 is about fast cars and glamour.
kngrthr
Posts: 203
formula 1 is now american owned.
America is run by the christian church.
what else did we expect....
ajpennypacker
Posts: 2,475
I think you're stuck on stereotypes from the 1960's. Furthermore, the removal of grid girls is not driven by religious sentiment, but rather feminist push to stop objectifying women in the media. But hey, nice try.
mcbhargav
Posts: 1,332
self doubting started with Liberty.
ajpennypacker
Posts: 2,475
Liberty is doing a solid job, it's just that some fans out there get all butthurt every time anything changes. At least the horrendous whining in the past was about the racing itself, this is about a sideshow that nobody on TV ever notices. Still, these very fragile fans found another way to be offended. Frankly, I hope this purges them out of the sport and they stop watching.
calle.itw
Posts: 8,527
What Americanization are you all talking about? As if removing Grid girls isnt a European thing to do. The only thing I complain about is them prioritizing a second U.S GP over e.g a GP in Argentina, a country with a wellestablished interest in F1 yet they havent had their own GP there in ages, or in another Asian country. And if they can change the finally from that boring slug that is Abu Dhabi, then I'll be dandy. This year was especially dreadful, methinks.
If anyone of you can bring up one time you actually thought the grid girls were really noticeable and legit benefitted the show, especially if you are watching from home, then fair enough. But as far as I know, nobody really cared until they were gone. Funny, isnt it?
ajpennypacker
Posts: 2,475
You're bringing facts and valid arguments to a crowd that has no appetite for reason. These people want to whine because of political reasons (i.e. the perception that this constituted caving to feminists), the old school fans that whine every time something changes and still wish everything look like 1982, and the European types that love to hate on the U.S. So again, this is not interested in reason, or in making the sport better.
calle.itw
Posts: 8,527
Hehe you are making this shy labrat blush! I dont really know if I bring facts to the table, but I'd like to think I tend to bring valid points and counter arguments to various discussions. No topic benefit from a one-sided debate. Im biased as anyone (see Honda discussions for reference), but I try to be level headed about things.
In this case, I fail to see any direct Americanization of F1, and more importantly we havent seen them do anything legit harmful to the sport. We've so far seen them implement the halo, something the FIA were going to do anyway, we've seen pay balancing so that smaller teams get more cash than they used to and Filthy Rich Ferrari doesnt get as ridiculous sums anymore, we've seen them helping the historic and very popular track of Monza to stay on the calendar and has reduced costs for the British GP, we've seen them organizing F1 and has aired a few potential changes, some good some bad, but there are things happening. They have also implemented an official livestream, which is way cheaper and generally a way better service than what many TV channels can offer. Just connect a PC to a TV and tada! And attempting to improve the show outside of the races for the attendants isnt a bad or "American" thing to do, IMO that should've been considered from the start. Am I pleased with Liberty? Overall so far: Yes. Can things be done in a better way? Always.
Helen78
Posts: 3
@AJPENNYPACKER, perhaps you might permit me to bring some facts, valid arguments and reasoning to this discussion.
I am a feminist and I worked as a grid girl at the Australian GP whilst putting myself through Uni. I was treated with respect and I was neither exploited nor objectified.
In my experience the overwhelming majority of men in this world have the capacity to – and do - appreciate a female model as an attractive woman in possession of a mind, feelings, integrity and dignity; and not an object.
I do understand that there are some men who do objectify women, who do degrade the status of a woman to that of a mere object. I also understanding that there are those men - who are clearly not well - who actually believe that being a model is akin to being a prostitute (@MCLARENFAN1968, how dare you!), and who believe that all men who like the presence of female models in F1 should resort to porn and masturbation (also @MCLARENFAN1968). But again, in my experience, such men are in the overwhelming minority (though perhaps not in the vocal minority) as I’ve never actually met one, likely because it is they who are incapable of interacting with any attractive woman who processes a mind and a free spirit.
As for the feminism argument, feminism is not in question here. Feminism is the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the ‘equality of the sexes’. In respect of the availability of work, it seems to me that female models are treated far more favourably professionally than male models.
For me, what is as equally important as feminism – perhaps even more so – is women’s liberation – the legal, social and political emancipation of women; the process of being set free from legal, social and political restrictions.
The fact is that making a decision ‘on behalf of’ a female model to exclude them from F1 on the ground that there potentially exists a small number of men who objectify women, in effect, takes the decision out of the hands of the woman involved in the situation, and thereby imposes a social restriction on the freedom of choice and liberation of a woman.
In terms of whether F1 is exploiting women, the definition of exploitative is “making use of a situation or treating others unfairly in order to gain an advantage or benefit”, hence so long as an individual woman is treated fairly, there can be no question of exploitation.
I for one certainly believe that having more women involved in F1, in whatever capacity, makes the sport more inclusive, and certainly makes it less blokey, and therefore makes it better.
If Mr Carey is not opposed to the concept of ‘grid girls’, if he ensures that they are treated fairly and with respect, and if he affords a woman the freedom to make her own choice as to whether or not to be a grid girl, there is no need for him to listen to the vocal minority of prudish F1 fans, and he should allow grid girls to continue in the time honoured traditions of F1.
ajpennypacker
Posts: 2,475
@helen78 thank you for the thoughtful response. While I do believe that as a gridgirl you were treated with respect, the problem is not whether man objectify women or not (man can do that with women in a boardroom or in the military just as well). The problem is the perception of F1 presenting women in such a way that makes women look like scantily clad bimbos. Women do it willingly, yes. But that's a separate issue. Formula 1 is looking after its brand. With all due respect, gridgirls were an insignificant part of the F1 show. Did gridgirls represent women in a way that's harmful to their gender? Yes and no. Some grid girls were great, dressed un traditional attire. Others looked like showgirls. But again, it was simply easier to do away with the whole practice to prevent controversy. In a few months, with the children on the grid, nobody will be talking about this anymore. Especially if we are having a good season.
Helen78
Posts: 3
@AJPENNYPACKER I appreciate the conciliatory tone you have ‘attempted’ to take in response to my post, but you still managed to cast yet another aspersion on my character by this time suggesting that all F1 grid girls are nothing more than “scantly clad bimbos”. Amazing. As a background to this discussion it is probably worth considering some of your other posts in respect of this matter:
***1 FEB – “And if anyone thinks it's a big deal not to have eye candy you made an excellent cheeky suggestion below”, this quote being in response to a post by @CALLE.ITW, who suggested, “If you want entertainment with scarcely clad women with no halos in sight, there is something referred to as pornography, and I've heard that its great”.***
*** 2 FEB – “For those saying "the girls are paid and they choose to be there" That's a stupid argument. Prostitutes, exotic dancers, porn stars, all choose to do what they do. The problem is not that they are being forced to do anything they don't want to. You can always get someone to do just about anything for the right amount of money.” ***
*** 9 FEB – “Sure they do it willingly, but so do prostitutes, escorts, and porn actresses”.***
*** 9FEB – “We could also have wet t-shirt contests, and girls wrestling in their underwear in a Jell-O pool, and there would be girls delighted to do it for money. Should we do it?”***
@AJPENNYPACKER, really???
It seems that you and I have a contrasting capacity to differentiate the attributes of a female model from that of a wet t-shirt participant, a jelly wrestler, an exotic dancer, a prostitute or a porn star.
I have to say that it really disappoints me that our social mores are being shifted to such a large extent by high and mighty social media bullies with such warped views and opinions.
If I were to advance your rational, your position must also be that – because the uber-attractive female members of the Sky Channel commentary team are no doubt objectified by men, they too are no different to exotic dancers, prostitutes and porn stars, and are therefore a threat to the F1 brand and should be immediately relieved of their roles within F1.
What next @AJPENNYPACKER? Should F1 stand alone in its endeavour to protect its brand from the degrading presence of female models, or do you foresee that all major brands such as Mercedes, Coca Cola, Rolex or Tommy Hilfiger, for instance, will need to remove all attractive female models from their promotions and advertising material as well?
You seem so genuinely concerned about protecting F1 from the threat of controversy surrounding female models, that I have to wonder, where do you perceive the threat actually comes from? Is it from the female models themselves? Is it from the offence they cause to other woman? Is it from the offence they cause to men? Or is it because they are a threat to society in general? Even if they do offend ‘some’ people, isn’t that ok? Or must our world be so sanitised.
You and I have a very different opinion as to how men view female models. As I wrote in my original post, whilst I do acknowledge there are likely to be some men who view a female model as a mere object, it has been my experience that such men are in the slightest of minorities, and that the overwhelming majority of men see a female model for who she is, an attractive woman who possesses a mind, feelings, integrity and dignity; and a person who is worthy of their respect.
You say that female models are an insignificant part of the F1 show and that removing them from F1 is of no consequence. As insignificant as they may be, I on the other hand believe that having more women in F1, in whatever capacity, broadens the sport and makes it more inclusive. There is no doubt in my mind that having female models on the grid adds a touch of class and elegance to the proceedings and makes the whole trackside environment feel less male dominated, and I can assure you that having their presence around the paddock makes other ladies attending the race weekend feel less outnumbered.
Nevertheless, a big congratulations to you, and others like you, in your belittlement of female models, and on your success in having them removed from F1.
ajpennypacker
Posts: 2,475
@Helen78 Alright let me try to address your indictments, which by the way I am pleasantly surprised by how thorough you were.
- Regarding my previous comments, I'd have to look back on the context and level of seriousness. If you were interested in my real view on the issue it would be what we've discussed in this post.
- I suppose our main disagreement would be on this statement you made "whilst I do acknowledge there are likely to be some men who view a female model as a mere object, it has been my experience that such men are in the slightest of minorities, and that the overwhelming majority of men see a female model for who she is, an attractive woman who possesses a mind, feelings, integrity and dignity; and a person who is worthy of their respect." I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree with very few exceptions, particularly when it comes to luxury/prestigious brands. But in general, a model is hired because her looks enhance the product they promote. Thoughts, feelings, intelligence are hardly considered for a modeling job, because the model is not selling herself, but the product. Sex sells very well, that's why attractive and voluptuous women are often dressed in revealing clothing to get more attention to the product being sold. Some models are truly there to enhance and present a product. Others are there to sexualize the product (e.g. American Apparel brands, Abercrombie & Fitch, PETA, Dolce & Gabbana)
Now, this obviously does not apply to women doing their job (even modeling) in a way that their bodies become more important (e.g. captivating) than the actual job they are there to perform. Sky Channel commentary team has females, but they don't do it mini-skirts, or low-cut dresses showing cleavage do they? I even mentioned specifically grid-girls in some countries where they were dressed in traditional attire (not overly revealing) and I thought that was great (you seem to have ignore that part).
Finally, my argument is not that there shouldn't be grid girls on the grid. My point was that F1 management was right in doing so because of the potential implications of a controversy, and the low impact on the show from removing grid girls. I too believe having more women in F1 would be great and that's still available in the paddock as engineers, management, or driving the cars. Removing grid girls in no way hampers women's ability to participate.