Toro Rosso can win races with Honda engine

Don't be silly!

What nonsense.

He didn’t say it was in F1 though! Could be they’re plann8ng a different series?

Yeah, Hartley seem to be another Palmer.

I actually don't think that Hartley is that bad. He looks to be getting better each race. I think it's too early to say yet. The driver that is the worst at the moment is grosjean even Ericsson is driving better.

I disagree that Grosjean is the worst, at this rate thats probably either Williams driver, but its hard to say, and he is no doubt underperforming. And Ericsson is hard to measure because he is in a not very optimal car. But seeing what pace Gasly has, either he is excelling or Hartley is underperforming.

Grosjean has been struggling for the last 2 seasons. His driving is erratic and he dangerous is the decisions he makes, constantly questioning other people and not at all aware of his own failings. On the other hand is Hartley who's aware of the opportunity and is honest that he still catching up. He just needs a bit more time. Comparing drivers is always troublesome but for me it's Grosjean who is underperforming by a larger margin.

Hartley seems to have been amazingly unlucky so far so I'm prepared to defer judgement on him. For me William seem to have to have the two worst drivers - although that may be a bit unfair since William clearly win the 'worst car' award by unanimous acclaim.

Their current goal seem to be one thing: make sure the Honda unit can progress as much as possible so that Red Bull can see if going Honda is worth it. Since STR will likely not bring many upgrades of their own (they usually dont, so thats normal), their performance this year largely depend on the drivers and the PU. Mind, I think STR is genuinly happy with having a partner that actually cares. If it were all a play we'd notice. Thats the thing with business people, they think we are too stupid to know when they are bullshitting.

An interesting note: The STR is still faster on the straights than some of the Renault powered cars. Not sure if thats down to the engine, mind.

@Calle I do agree that STR is generally happy and full of patience for Honda. They along with Red Bull conspired to savage the remains of the relationship with Renault. Of course Renault didn't help things by failing to deliver what was expected. But again, STR is the only good fit for Honda. We've already seen what Red Bull is capable of doing after ONE bad season with an engine provider, even if the bad season was after 4 championship winning years. I actually feel fairly confident that Helmut, Dietrich, and Chris Horner would be way worst than Zak, Eric, and Fernando in terms of straining the relationship with Honda.

The only good fit for now. I expect that will and would change if Honda does git gud (with gud being equal or better than Renault) or were to get a second team on board. But honestly, while I would've agreed with you earlier, I will say that Im not as sure that McLaren is a nicer partner anymore. Sponsors have been leaving them in droves, and none of Honda's affiliated sponsors were willing to partner with McLaren. Meanwhile, sponsors are literally fighting to get a spot on RB's car. And I dont think all of that is down to better performance.

I think that's one of the reasons RB is taking so long to decide. They would not be able keep both sponsorships. Not because of conflict of interest, but because it would look silly. Aston Martin is mulling an entry into F1 and presumably it would have been through RB.

It would, and I dont think Aston Martin would be fond of it. But Honda have their own money as well as a set of affiliated brands, so chances are they wouldnt really lose that money even if Aston were to part ways with RB.

It's all down to airtime and Redbull has way higher percentage of this than anyone else. That is down to the driver style that Redbull prefers. Honda will be a great fit from an marketing point of view.

And I think Red Bull will like the Honda's compact nature. Im sure they'd be able to make more of it than McLaren ever could. But we'll see. First we need to see if they can match Renault.

I think those are all secondary issues. RB has got to be scared stiff of repeating McLaren's experience. The Renault engine leaves much to be desired but at least they are finishing most races (when they don't crash) and even winning occasionally.

They are for sure, but its nevertheless reasons beneficial to Honda. And I think Renault's unwillingness to bring midseason upgrades will cost them in the long run.

Not a chance on present performance.

I was thinking long run. Post 2021.